Choice and Consequence
So, I read this article this morning. I didn't even finish it before I started typing up this post. This is not addressed to anyone in particular. But is aimed at Rev. Jay Scott Newman of St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville, S.C. I know that different issues carry different weight with different people when it comes to picking our leaders. With that being said, this country is not a theocracy, and should not be run as one. Sure, we pick our leaders based on our beliefs, but I hope one of the most weighted beliefs we choose with is the one that tells us the person we chose will help this country thrive. I don't think our abortion laws really help us suceed or fail as a country. I think our social, economic and foreign policies have a whole lot more to do with it, than our religious leanings do. I can understand telling parishioners that they should refrain from communion if they have been directly involved in an abortion. Not because they have voted for a candidate that takes a pro-choice stance on the issue. I voted for Obama. I would be one of the first people in line to tell someone not to abort their child. There are too many other viable options. I used to say I was pro-choice. I have been through something that taught me that I wasn't. I didn't have a choice, my baby didn't have a choice, the mother had the choice. It is a long, complicated and emotional situation that I will probably never go into fully on this forum. But it taught me that I was wrong (for me to say that I was pro-choice, you are allowed your opinion on it). But, I will not choose a candidate that might run this country into the ground, based solely on their abortion views, and I would hope that the staunchest supporters of the pro-life agenda would make the same choice. Although, I know that is a pipe-dream.
So, Rev. Newman, I am here to tell you that you are an idiot for trying to alienate your parishioners because they did not vote for someone that will probably do nothing for or against abortion while they are in office. This country has too many other important issues right now. It would be stupid to be focusing on what is ultimately a personal one. Teach your congregation that there are CHOICES that do not include abortion. But don't chastise them for making a CHOICE for a leader, probably based on many more factors than how they feel about a woman's right to choose. By supporting someone else, they might have chose a candidate that is supporting a war that was unjustified in the first place (Iraq not Afghanistan) in which innocent people are being killed everyday. I only use this example to prove a point, that no matter which choice you make, the candidate is probably supporting the death of innocents for what they believe is right. So, as a Christian, a voter and a pro-life individual, I would say, it is not up to you sir, to decide whose soul is at risk. Leave that to God, he will judge us when we pass from this earth. It is up to you to guide them in the right direction. If communion is taken to prove that Jesus died for our sins and this is one of the ways that we can receive Him, then why would you stop someone from receiving Him who might be trying to atone for the sin of choosing a pro-choice advocate. Maybe they used their religion to guide them in their choice and still found that the lesser of the two evils was Obama. Now they feel they need to repent and YOU won't allow it. You may be Christ's representative, but you are not Christ, you did not die for their sins and they are not receiving you, you pompus ass. Get over yourself and do your job. Help people find God, don't turn them away from him. None of us are perfect, least of all you.
posted by Larry @ 7:24 AM
9 Comments:
Obama DID say the first thing he would do in office is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. This will guarantee that abortion is available at any stage (lifting any ban on partial-birth abortion that Bush signed into law) and make taxpayer money available for abortions. As a pro-life supporter, this is unacceptable to me... I do not want any of my money going towards these murderous procedures.
Our country IS failing, if we allow 1.2 million of our children to die every year. No other issue causes the loss of 1.2 million lives a year, deliberately. Not healthcare, the economy, or even the war brings about that many deaths a year. How can anything be more important than preventing these deaths of so many innocents?
Abortion is not strictly a religious issue either. You cannot scientifically argue that a fetus is not a human being. Abortion-rights supporters can try all they want, but there is nowhere you can draw a line at where a fetus becomes a human being, except at the very moment of conception. You don't need to believe in God to understand that. And if what you're "terminating" is a human being, then abortion should be illegal, just like every other kind of murder.
Anyways. HAD to get that off... :)
Kristi, I knew I'd hit a nerve with you on this one, and I am glad that you feel so strongly about it. It is one of the things that makes you, you.
Now, as for your argument as to why it is the most important issue.
First, Obama saying "the first thing he would do..." He's a politician, I don't know the context he said that in. But would be willing to put money on it being said in front of a huge congregation of pro-choice advocates. He also said that the economy was his number one priority later on in his campaign. And, last I checked, people could get away with pretty much everything on the abortion bill except for late-term abortions and using tax-payer money, but there will be more on that later.
Next. There are 3.5 million homeless people in America and growing. 1.35 million of those are children (and that number is growing, too). That makes 1.2 look small to me. So, yes, our social (read domestic) policy is in need of some tweeking. Some estimates have the total number of civilians killed in Iraq at 600,000. That is probably very liberal and the number is probably closer to 100,000, but even if it between the two numbers. There is more death not to mention the 150,000 US troops separated from family and friends. So, add at least another half million people (not including family and friends of soldiers) affected by our foreign policy. And our economic policies aren't only affecting us any more. They affect the whole world. And look where they have put us.
With all of that being said, to me, abortion is a minor issue when picking a leader. Since it is already legal and the supreme court hasn't overturned their decision yet in any of the four or five cases that have come their way regarding abortion since Roe v Wade. And they won't anytime in the near future. However they have upheld a ban on late-term abortions and hae not yet allowed for public moneys or facilities to be used. So, Obama's hands are probably tied there. The court will not touch Roe v Wade, without something huge to force their hand. Nothing has come up since 73, I don't think anything will.
My main point with this post was not whether abortion should be legal. It is legal, that won't change without unforeseen major issues reaching the Supreme Court. My main point was that a church leader who is trying to lead people to God, should realize that some people don't view abortion as the top issue and most of them probably were more worried about the economy or even their health insurance. They might even feel horrified that their "best" choice was pro-choice, yet the alternative was worse for other reasons mentioned. And now those people shouldn't participate in communion? Really? It symbolizes Jesus Christ's sacrifice. His dying for our sins. Some of these people may need the church now more than ever after having to make such a decision and their priest says they shouldn't participate without telling him that they voted for Obama and doing their Hail Marys, and Our Fathers. By not voting or voting against their feeling on other things just to appease the church,I would think these people would feel helpless. This isn't the United States of The Vatican. So here is my main point...
THESE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE MADE TO FEEL LIKE SINNERS FOR VOTING ON OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO THEM. MOST OF THEM WOULD NEVER CONSIDER PARTICIPATING IN AN ABORTION THAT THE GOOD REVEREND IS SO WORRIED ABOUT.
After saying all of that, I am pro-life, but it is not my voting agenda. It is how I live my life. I voted for Obama because of most of his other proposed policies, definitely not because of his views on abortion. And, I don't consider that a sin. This man really over-reached his authority.
I agree that priest probably made no friends wagging his finger at his congregation. You're not going to win hearts chastising them and making them feel guilty.
However, it's sad that the Church isn't more unified in its emphasis on life issues, which it has clearly stated are non-negotiable. After all, 54% of Catholics voted for Obama. Communion, by the way, represents the UNITY of the Church, which is why when one person breaks from that unity by directly supporting a non-negotiable issue like abortion, they can be denied Communion by the bishops.
However, and here is where I agree with you that this guy overstepped his bounds, I know this does not apply to those who indirectly support these issues by voting for pro-choice candidates. This applies more for Catholics who run for office on platforms that contradict Church views. They are directly breaking with a huge tenet of the faith, and can therefore be denied Communion.
There was a letter in a recent bulletin at my church that Communion is not a right,, it is a privilege for those who are in good faith with the Church, because it is about the unity of Christ's body.
You're right, 3.5 million homeless is a lot. But those homeless people have hope of improving their life. 1.2 million children a year HAVE no hope. And besides, who is to say the government is the best answer as to who should take care of the poor? An argument can be made that welfare keeps poor people poor. And even with the civilian deaths, Iraq is doing a lot better with our soldiers over there than when Hussein was in power to murder and torture his own people at his whim... and especially without the Taliban in power over there anymore, the Middle East is becoming a safer place with our help. Think of all the deaths that have been prevented thanks to our military. Al-Quaida has been practically chased out of Iraq, but what would happen if Obama pulls out our troops and undoes everything those soldiers have worked so hard for? We could end up with a new wave of terrorism over there and a resurgence of Al-Quaida in Iraq... It's scary to think of.
Anyways... I refuse to give up hope for Roe v. Wade to be overturned... and we'd have a lot better chance of it with a pro-life leader in charge. During one of the presidential debates, Obama pretty much answered the question of whether or not he'd only appoint pro-choice judges as yes, he would. So until we get another chance to elect a pro-life leader, we have to keep emphasizing the importance of life issues and hoping that this barbaric practice will come to an end someday soon.
Response on Your comment @ my post
Larry
What film are You quoting?
Nalle Puh / Winnie the Pooh (A.A. Milnes)?
The philosopher Charles Sanders Peirce (the father of pragmatism) had a wonderful section about ideas and where they come from ... he meant that ideas are never subjective, they are always in interplay with something. He claimed that there does not exist thoughts that are entirely subjective, everything is intersubjective, so also scientific discoveries and innovations .....
Kristi, you raise plenty of great points. You are a whole lot more knowledgeable about the Catholic Church and its doctrines than I am(of course :P) . And, obviously, life issues are one of your main concerns when voting, so you are probably better educated on those facts too (I do try to keep abreast of them, but don't try to be an expert). With millions of Catholics out there, and even more denominations of Christians, there are plenty of us that don't vote based on life issues alone and life issues fall toward the bottom of our lists of issues when voting. That priest pissed me off by stating that these people are sinners because of how they voted. I just wish there were more choices out there than just two (I know I could have voted Nader, or written someone in, but why throw my choice away I'd rather pick what is in my opinion the lesser of the two evils). It would make these discussions a lot more interesting, because we might actually be able to find candidates that fit our views more precisely.
I read Your post carefully, and I tried hard to put myself into Your American culture ... but, I can't do that even if I lived there during a couple of periods in my life.
To me it is completely strange to send my sons and daughters to war in other countries ... to make my living lovely children victims of war. But, it is more important to vote for a president that will focus on non-abortion.
In my Scandinavian brain this is a scenario of worst kind:
"No abortions allowed because we need them to be killed later with a gun in their hands, instead."
- To me this is to difficult "logic" of effectiveness to understand. It is scary when You have people in the White House with this kind of thinking and planing the future - in such a large nation as US.
Larry, I am sorry for Your personal experience <3
We Europeans have great hopes for US and the rest of the world - IF Obama is allowed to stay alive and move into the White House.
Anna, no matter what happens or who is leading, we are still the country with "the biggest stick". We try to help others when no one else can. Even if that means sending our children off to wage war in foreign lands. Sometimes our reasons are flawed, but overall we try to do right.
For me, abortion falls to the bottom of the list for me because, by being legal, it at least protects those women who have to have one for health reasons. And it also protects the one that would use it as birth control from having it done in a cheap hotel room by some dirty illegal "doctor". Those people that use them as birth control have to live with their decisions for the rest of their lives.
In America I can never remember it being so divided. It is almost scary to me. However, we all need to hope that we can all learn from the mistakes of the greedy and powerful, and improve our country and our world by working together. I just hope that Obama is not all talk.
And as for my personal experience, we all go through trials in our lives. This was one of mine. It helped me learn a bit more about something I didn't really have a good grasp of and made me realize that I was lying to myself about who I was in one aspect of my life. I am very thankful to have learned what I learned from it, and still a bit broken by it at the same time.
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